This interview was originally broadcasted in Albanian on A2CNN TV station on November 27, 2024.
A2CCN: Mr. Salinas, how do you feel on the eve of leaving Albania?
Emanuel Salinas: Albania has been my home for the last three years and a half. It's a country that has always welcomed me warmly, is a country where my family has always been received very well, and a country that is very easy to feel at home. I'm leaving sooner than I expected. This is the nature of this kind of assignment. But clearly, I feel that a part of me is going to be left behind. And it only means that I need to come back fairly frequently after that.
A2CCN: What would you consider as the World Bank achievements, during your stay of over 3 years in Albania? What about on a personal level?
ES: As an institution, I think when I look back at where we are now, basically where we were three years and a half ago, I feel that we can have the perception that we deliver everything that we promised, whether it's new hospitals, whether it's new roads, whether it's starting the reconstruction of bridges that are at risk, whether it's working with Ministry of Tourism and Environment in remediating the pollution of Vjosa. There's a lot of work that has taken place over the last few years. And when I am speaking for my whole team now, because clearly this is the outcome of the work of the World Bank team, but also the work of the counterparts of different ministries. I think we can look back and feel proud with the progress. In some cases, faster, in some cases slower than we were hoping. But I feel that collectively we can feel that really, we did our part.
Personally, I feel that there are two elements that I found critical on this. One is the perception or the feeling that we're trusted as an institution. The Prime Minister, a few months ago, was mentioning how he feels that the World Bank as an institution is an institution that has a heart. And I take it as probably the best validation we can have of the perception of the bank as an institution. To me, the implication of the bank having a heart as an institution, it means that we are seen as a decent institution that tries to do the best we can within the tools that we have for the benefit of Albania. We cannot solve everything, but I think we are perceived that we are honest in trying to bring positive change to Albania. Personally, I feel also being trusted as a person, and that means a lot. Because it is both a reflection of how people see you, whether they see that you're acting in your interest or you're acting in the interest of people in Albania. And when you're trusted, the impact that you can have in terms of helping policymakers and authorities to think of the challenges and solutions is a lot higher than just bringing money to the table.
A2CCN: How has Albania changed during this period, and especially regarding its economic development?
ES: I feel that Albania changes by the day. Every single day I see something new. You feel the dynamism of the Albanian economy. You see it everywhere. That's quite remarkable because even though Albania is part of the Western Balkans, it looks a bit similar to the rest of the countries in the region but in reality, the trajectory that Albania has is a completely different one. It's as if you take a picture right now of all the countries in the region, they look similar, but Albania comes from a different position to 20 or 30 years ago. So, the trajectory is a much faster one. And I think that reflects a lot of things now. It reflects the potential that Albania has as a country. It reflects the talent that Albanian population has, it reflects the good geographic location that benefits a lot of things, but it also reflects good policies and good institutions. I know that the process of strengthening policies and institutions is one that is not finished. But I see that the trajectory is a very positive one. And having EU accession as the way forward, to me, it's obvious that is the best focus to have, and a very credible one. I see Albania as being a member of the EU community sometime very soon. I think that trajectory is very well defined there.
A2CCN: Can you share with us some of the challenges you encountered during your cooperation with government but also other groups of the society in Albania?
ES: I think what you have with the World Bank and the counterparts in the countries is you have two bureaucracies or many bureaucracies interacting with each other. So as bureaucracies, we always find challenges in terms of how fast we can move and how quickly we can get from agreeing to actually putting results on the ground. But I never felt that this challenges or these issues have prevented us from doing anything. On the contrary, I would say rather than facing challenges in the interaction with counterparts in Albania, I feel that we were challenged as an institution. We were challenged to be faster. We were challenged to do more with less. And we were challenged in some cases to even be briefer in terms of how we communicate. So, for example, I frequently heard from ministers or people at the government saying- “Oh my God, there's the World Bank again with a big report on something”. And I understand that people don't have a lot of time to read big reports. I think there's an ambition to say, what is it that you come up? What are the key messages that are coming out of these big reports that translate into something tangible for Albania? And I think that's a very good challenge to have because I don't think anyone has the time to just be sitting and breathing and thinking in theoretical terms. We were challenged to be faster and that’s a very good challenge to have.
A2CCN: How has your opinion about Albania and its people changed from that you had before coming here to work?
ES: I came with Albania without a lot of preconceived ideas. I know that every country is different. Before coming here, I was based in Bosnia and Herzegovina and I kind of perceived Albania as being part of the Western Balkans. But I didn't know enough of the population and the country and the history to have any perception. And I'm glad that I didn't have any perception because that means that you come with a very open mind, and you take the society and the country without any kind of prejudice. I leave Albania with a very enormous respect for the Albanian population because to me, Albania is a country that has changed radically in a very short period of time. And it's a country where you can see that there's this dynamism to move forward now. And that it requires a lot of respect because there's a lot of remarkable transformation that took place in the country. I think the expectation from the population of the future is there. You can see it, you can feel that people demand more. And that's great to have. That's not necessarily the case in other countries in the region or beyond. On a more personal basis, as Latin American, I feel that there's a common element of values in terms of what friendship means, what family means, what honor means in a way, your tradition and so on. Some of these values, I think are quite remarkable. I know that in many cases these values are what drives human interaction, even when institutions are not solid enough. So, I can see how those values have driven Albania and those are the values to have. And I very much hope that that 20 or 30 years on the road, they will continue driving a lot of the interaction between Albanians and between Albanians and other countries as well.
A2CCN: How do you see the role of the WB in the country's development, and do you think that Albania will need to benefit from the Bank's financing for many more years?
ES: At the bank, we like to see ourselves as a knowledge bank. We know that there are many sources of financing. As Albania becomes a more developed economy, it will have access to commercial sources of financing, mobilization of funds from the private sector. And all of this, is part of the trajectory, the natural evolution of the country. As we go in this trajectory, I see the role of the bank in terms of being more a provider of knowledge and a provider of advice. I think we've got started already in that regard. And that's why I was mentioning to you the importance of trust because trust you cannot buy it with funding, but you build trust over a period of time, over a number of interactions. And it's only when you combine trust with knowledge and advice that you can actually have significant impacts that we as institution want to give. So over time, I expect that the proportion of financing will decrease, and the proportion of knowledge creation and sharing will become even more important going forward. We see it already there. We see how in the interaction we have with authorities, the knowledge that we can mobilize is many times a lot more important than financing. And I see that that is a normal trajectory to happen. I think that's a great role for our institution to have in the future.
A2CCN: In your opinion, what are some immediate priorities for Albania and challenges that should face in the near future?
ES: To me, the most important priority is human capital. Albania benefits from a number of aspects related to the geographic location, natural resources and so on. But what really drives Albanians uniqueness in the potential for the economy is people. I think when it comes to human capital, all of us are worried about migration. We know that this is a major concern for the country. But I think when we think of human capital, we think of two dimensions of that. One is the stock of the human capital and the second is the flow of the human capital. The stock basically means what do we do or how can we leverage or do the most with the labor force or the people that are right now in Albania to be productive, to be employed, to be the source of growth that the country needs to have. That basically means bringing youth to the labor market or to education, enabling women to be economically active if they want to do so. Making sure that people that come back to Albania from living in the EU for example, or in other countries, that they integrate rapidly to the labor force. That's kind of the stock of human capital. The flow, it means investing in the future, investing in education. It's something that we know that no country will ever regret- investing in education. And that's probably the most important choice that any country can have in terms of where to put the money, the resources and the financing. And we think that in this environment where the future looks a bit uncertain because we are here about what's going to happen with the AI and with the technological change and so on. The one thing we know for sure is that investing in equipping the kids and the youth with skills and knowledge that can help them to adjust to the different scenarios in the future is really the best we can collectively do.
A2CCN: And the last question for you Mr. Salinas, will you return to Albania again, this time as a tourist?
ES: Very much so. My son will stay here. He's 21 years old. He came with me here a few years ago and he told me: you know, when you go, I will stay here. And so yes, sure enough, he’s staying here. I'm looking forward to having an Albanian family eventually when my son settles in here. And to me this is important because it reduces the sadness that I would have otherwise of leaving Albania at this point. I know that I will be coming back, I will come back frequently. And it's a great feeling to have now that I'm not leaving Albania for good. I'm just transitioning from one way of being here to another way of being here in the near future.
A2CCN: Thank you Mr. Salinas for this interview and for being our collaborator for all these years.
ES: Faleminderit! (Thank you.)
